裊情私
郝：三人的合作主題是關(guān)于《春宮圖》。為什么要合作這個(gè)手卷？我覺得它具有獵奇性，因?yàn)槿绻呛献饕环剿?、花鳥作品，就太平常了。
肖： 嗯，我也這么覺得，它應(yīng)該是一個(gè)特別的東西。
孫：金農(nóng)的學(xué)生羅聘畫過多幅《鬼趣圖》手卷，它是受過正統(tǒng)繪畫教育的一個(gè)成熟藝術(shù)家的邊緣化的作品。他的繪畫語言其實(shí)并不邊緣化，但是他的思路和形象都挺邊緣化的。所以咱們仨合作這作品也得讓他有價(jià)值，也得是“邊緣化”的。其實(shí)《春宮圖》本身不是邊緣化的東西，在古代或許是，但在現(xiàn)代如果把它當(dāng)成邊緣化的東西，它的意義就會(huì)特別淺了。
郝：現(xiàn)在說到《春宮圖》，會(huì)覺得好像是一個(gè)很隱諱的事物，其實(shí)它已經(jīng)成為一個(gè)文化的概念，它已經(jīng)不是古代壓箱底的東西了。我們是要用古代春宮圖的形式，但其實(shí)表達(dá)的并不是春宮圖的內(nèi)容。就是說要表達(dá)的核心內(nèi)容并不是性愛，可能是在闡述這張圖中的內(nèi)容在古代和現(xiàn)代中的意義或狀態(tài)，它可能是一個(gè)很模煳的概念，可能是圖中事物搭接所產(chǎn)生的一種邏輯，這種邏輯并不是春宮圖的邏輯，而是春宮圖存在的邏輯。它有點(diǎn)像羅聘《鬼趣圖》的概念，其實(shí)《鬼趣圖》是運(yùn)用一個(gè)非常理的造型和繪制方法，由于羅聘是一個(gè)既畫竹子又畫羅漢、山石的畫家，此作品的意義也就顯現(xiàn)出來了。
孫：很個(gè)體。
肖：《鬼趣圖》的存在其實(shí)對(duì)研究羅聘而言是很重要的，他傳達(dá)出了另外一個(gè)概念。羅聘為什么當(dāng)時(shí)那么關(guān)注“鬼趣”？這是一個(gè)特別有意思的事。
孫：我想還有一點(diǎn)，我們合作的這個(gè)手卷展開以后，呈現(xiàn)給觀者一種存在于古今的腐朽感，但在這種腐朽上應(yīng)該有一個(gè)特別清新，特別嶄新的視角，這個(gè)東西不是指向古代而是指向未來。就是繪畫的語言、符號(hào)雖然是古代的肉身，但它煥發(fā)的精神氣質(zhì)是指向未來。而且咱們仨可以把各自非常主觀化的東西加進(jìn)去。比如，郝量你畫骷髏，你也可以在畫面的某個(gè)局部給觀眾一點(diǎn)暗示。
郝：我也不是關(guān)注骷髏，其實(shí)關(guān)注的是骷髏的結(jié)構(gòu)，它那么精密，支撐著整個(gè)肉體和筋脈，它有點(diǎn)像建筑結(jié)構(gòu)概念。所以我覺的骷髏、建筑或其它什么東西他們搭接在一起形成一個(gè)邏輯然后形成一個(gè)整體。我還有一個(gè)想法，比如給我一張古代的春宮圖，它對(duì)我而言就是一張老畫，就是一個(gè)古代的存在體，但又覺得它會(huì)跟現(xiàn)代很多事物產(chǎn)生聯(lián)系，跟我也產(chǎn)生聯(lián)系。我的一個(gè)方桉是，底子就是一副春宮圖，它上面飄浮著很多物體，這些物體之間搭接在一起形成一種很曖昧關(guān)系，這樣的互搭會(huì)產(chǎn)生另外一種感覚。
孫：現(xiàn)在的思路是對(duì)的，它是一個(gè)很新的合作方式，跟我們古代的方法不一樣，它更有實(shí)踐性。我的思路是，比如我也用郝量選擇的這張春宮圖作為基礎(chǔ)，它就是一張老畫或是老照片，是很久很久以前的東西。畫完的效果可能是在這張畫上面已經(jīng)落滿了灰塵。
郝：可能你關(guān)注的是歷史性的塵埃。
孫：我的想法是我們可以用同一張畫來表達(dá)各自不同的觀念，你關(guān)注的是邏輯關(guān)系，我關(guān)注的還是人自身。畫面雖然是很老很舊，有點(diǎn)腐朽的東西，但畫中思想是帶有一種延續(xù)性并指向現(xiàn)在，觀眾可以從畫中曖昧的關(guān)系聯(lián)想到自己的生活。
郝：我覺得春宮圖中的這些姿勢(shì)對(duì)我們并不重要，而在古代，春宮圖帶有手淫和科教的意義。在封建禮教中，普通人在結(jié)婚前根本沒有機(jī)會(huì)接觸到性，只能通過這種圖錄，有點(diǎn)像現(xiàn)在的性愛教育片。但對(duì)我們而言，就是春宮圖在當(dāng)時(shí)的那種狀態(tài)，這個(gè)是核心的，并不是圖的重要性，而是它在歷史下的狀態(tài)。到了現(xiàn)代社會(huì)，它又存在于現(xiàn)代的狀態(tài)下，其實(shí)這種狀態(tài)的轉(zhuǎn)變就很有趣。
肖：對(duì)我而言它只是一個(gè)存在的物體而已，我會(huì)通過這張圖來闡述自己的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，是不是那種性愛經(jīng)驗(yàn)，就難說了。
郝：肖旭我問你一個(gè)問題。現(xiàn)今我們都很熟悉AV，它就像古代的春宮圖，我們現(xiàn)在看到的春宮圖有日本的、印度的、中國的、朝鮮的、歐美的你覺得它們與日本的AV聯(lián)系和區(qū)別在哪？
肖：他們的聯(lián)系最重要的是一個(gè)教育作用，就是看圖說話。
郝：那你覺得日本AV呢？
肖：AV其實(shí)對(duì)日本70、80年代經(jīng)濟(jì)的復(fù)興起到很大作用，然后又解決了一些犯罪問題，其實(shí)對(duì)社會(huì)是有功效的，所以大家對(duì)待這個(gè)問題不應(yīng)帶上有色眼鏡去看它。
郝：我覺得你說的犯罪問題非常有意思，其實(shí)春宮圖的存在為什么不能跟犯罪問題產(chǎn)生聯(lián)系呢？因?yàn)槟阏f到了日本AV的存在解決了犯罪問題，說明這東西跟犯罪有聯(lián)系。
肖：說到AV，我覺得中國的AV在這方面根本沒有什么突破，但是為什么中國沒有產(chǎn)生像日本那么普及的狀況，它其實(shí)是一個(gè)對(duì)比，民族、人種的不同最終導(dǎo)致文化的不同。
郝：嗯，我同意你的看法。中國古代的春宮圖都是很美的，在自然環(huán)境下的春事，如果是在屋內(nèi)都是很隱蔽的、很隱喻的、有帷幔的、有遮攔的。但是日本的春宮圖有一種凋塑感、力量感，它非常華麗，但內(nèi)容又非常變態(tài)，這完全是中國和日本兩種文化不同的感覺。你看印度的春宮圖，感覺就是一個(gè)教育片，一個(gè)宗教國家的感覺。
肖：對(duì)，我想關(guān)注的就是中國散發(fā)出的精神特質(zhì)的不同，并不只是春宮圖而是從畫面中表達(dá)出中國人含蓄的美，像昆曲一樣，具有東方韻味的美。
孫：現(xiàn)在我們的大輪廓已經(jīng)出來了。郝量追求的是歷史、邏輯，注重的是邏輯組合關(guān)系。肖旭追求的就是大文化的審美方式、東方韻味。我追求的是我個(gè)人化的語言，怎么用我個(gè)人的作畫方式來套這個(gè)思路。
郝：嗯，這樣輪廓就基本出來了。其實(shí)“春宮圖”就是給我們一個(gè)命題，我們?nèi)齻€(gè)人作三篇文章，每個(gè)人以自身最熟悉的方法來闡述。我們各自從三條路來闡釋“春宮”的概念，只是把“春宮”做為出發(fā)點(diǎn)。其實(shí)跟我們的展覽主題蠻接近的，我們?nèi)齻€(gè)人的畫也是截然不同的三種路子，孫文的是詩性化的、抒情化的。肖旭更多的還是東方符號(hào)、東方韻味的情節(jié)。對(duì)我而言東方的、西方的也都無所謂，就是對(duì)一些問題的認(rèn)識(shí)?，F(xiàn)在基本都明確了。還有一個(gè)問題就是，我們需不需要用同一張春宮圖？
孫：我覺得就用一張 ，相對(duì)來說簡(jiǎn)單一點(diǎn)，各自發(fā)揮的余地比較大。就是說周圍修飾的東西少，單純的東西多。
郝：我覺的有一張比較合適，我第一眼就看重了這張（明代春宮圖）。
因?yàn)槲矣X得這張的狀態(tài)很好，畫中的關(guān)系很曖昧，說不清道不明，只是說即將發(fā)生或正在發(fā)生什么，你看那東西立在那，像凋塑，也沒怎么樣。
肖：嗯，798應(yīng)該讓放。
郝：呵呵，展覽應(yīng)該不會(huì)被禁。
肖：但是我們合作的是一個(gè)手卷，但這張畫是豎構(gòu)圖。
郝：這只是我們參考的一個(gè)范本，我覺得我們的春宮圖就做成四段，第一段肯定是有一個(gè)主題，第二段就做一張線描稿，原版的線描稿。
展覽鏈接：
孫：我覺得展覽的時(shí)候可以把畫單獨(dú)放在一起，手稿放在旁邊，不要把手稿放在手卷里，不然畫面就破壞了。必盡要涉及到收藏，人家不要你的手稿，你也沒法給人拆。而且手稿要怎么和三個(gè)人的畫放在一起讓人感覺到統(tǒng)一呢。那畫和整個(gè)手卷的尺幅大致是多少呢？
郝：我覺得我們?nèi)齻€(gè)就畫成一樣大的尺幅，一個(gè)長(zhǎng)方形的構(gòu)圖，把引用的春宮圖重新演繹一下，然后畫一張線描稿。
孫：就畫一張稿子，比如就請(qǐng)肖旭用毛邊紙畫一張線描稿，以這個(gè)做藍(lán)本，然后我們隨便發(fā)揮。等于說肖旭的這張線描稿就代替這個(gè)資料了。
郝：對(duì)，而且可以在旁邊加一些小的文字批注，我覺得特別有意思。因?yàn)槲覀兊淖髌芬呀?jīng)不是一件簡(jiǎn)單的春宮圖，它有概念在里頭，你肯定是要有一個(gè)闡述。但是，又不能顯得太直接，所以得讓它更有節(jié)奏性。
孫：恩，但是這個(gè)手卷整體是一個(gè)什么形式？
郝：我現(xiàn)在也在想這個(gè)問題。我想純粹的做一個(gè)傳統(tǒng)手卷可能不好看，跟我們所有的畫不搭調(diào)。
肖：能不能就做一個(gè)長(zhǎng)的片兒，就裝訂一個(gè)框掛在墻上。
郝：我想現(xiàn)在的展覽也不需要這么一個(gè)長(zhǎng)卷，這樣顯得干凈一點(diǎn)兒。
郝：這件作品我覺得可以用一個(gè)特別有意思的名字。
孫：這個(gè)名字很重要。如果起得好，它可以讓人馬上明白我們要表達(dá)什么。
郝：我們可以做一個(gè)引導(dǎo)，就是三個(gè)概念的存在都是用“春宮”的闡釋，我們要先把這個(gè)核心思想搞清楚。
孫：（笑）那叫《春天的故事》吧？因?yàn)槲覀兊恼褂[也是在春天。
郝 肖：不不，《春天的故事》太......
郝：這樣吧，因?yàn)槲覀兊恼褂[在春天，就根本不用說“春天”了。我覺得叫《四月三日談》。
孫：三日談？
郝：三天的故事，三日談。就是一天一個(gè)概念，一天講一個(gè)故事。
孫：那就叫《四月物語》了嘛。
郝：“物語”這個(gè)詞不好。
孫：我們現(xiàn)在想的都挺靠題的，但是得再婉轉(zhuǎn)一點(diǎn)。
肖：但是也要清晰。你們覺得叫《三日春》怎么樣？只有三天的春天。
孫：我覺得還得再轉(zhuǎn)一下。我覺得應(yīng)該是有點(diǎn)情色曖昧的，又有指示文化的詞。
郝：其實(shí)也沒必要轉(zhuǎn)太多彎，就叫《春日三天》。
肖：《四月春戲》？
郝：不好，我覺得可以用一個(gè)指示名詞，比如《帷幔》，一個(gè)蠻曖昧的詞。
孫：嗯，我們先把大體的思路明確。就是簡(jiǎn)單、婉轉(zhuǎn)。
郝：你們覺得《春屋帷?！吩趺礃樱?br />
肖：感覺“春屋”是一件東西，“帷幔”是另一件東西。
郝：我想起一個(gè)，可以用三個(gè)物體的名字。三個(gè)詞，六個(gè)字。
孫：其實(shí)三個(gè)字也行，一個(gè)字一個(gè)意思。
郝：那就難了。
肖：六個(gè)字的話就有點(diǎn)長(zhǎng)了。
郝：那用一個(gè)曲牌名怎么樣？
孫：行啊，關(guān)鍵是用什么曲牌，適合我們的主題。
郝：《裊晴絲》怎么樣？是《牡丹亭》“游園驚夢(mèng)”里面杜麗娘的一段唱腔。
肖：其實(shí)可以保留“裊晴絲”的音，把字改成“裊情私”，更易于觀眾理解主題。
《裊情私》誕生在一個(gè)陰冷的下午，但將展現(xiàn)于春光明媚之時(shí)。
展覽鏈接：
Spring Tryst
Hao: Three people collaborating on a handscroll inspired by erotic painting from the past, is quite unusual. I think the reason why we chose this topic is because of its novelty—cooperating on a traditional landscape or bird and flower painting would just be too common.
Xiao: Um, I feel so, too. It should be a special work.
Sun: Luo Pin (1733-1799), a student of Jin Nong (1687-1763), created a series of handscrolls entitled “Ghost Amusement Paintings” which went against his more mainstream and orthodox works, and were ultimately marginalized. “Marginalized” here refers to the fact that the themes and imagery of these paintings were unusual for their time. By cooperating on this unusual somewhat marginalized work, we hope to create something of value. In the past, erotic paintings were in covert circulation and though not exactly marginalized, but in today’s world such paintings have lost their functionality and not considered mainstream anymore.
Hao: People may feel the subject of erotic paintings is taboo, but actually it has become a cultural conception, no longer something to hide in the closet. We use the form of classical erotic painting, but go beyond its original content. In other words, the core subject we express is not sex. Instead, we are looking at the logical consequence of erotic paintings’ existence and the content shift from past to present. “Eroticism” may be a blurred concept however it builds a structure of logic for the subjects in the painting. It’s kind of like the idea behind Luo Pin’s “Ghost Amusement Paintings,” which adopted unconventional painting imagery and techniques. However, Luo Pin was an artist who not only painted bamboo, but also numerous subjects—arhats, mountains and rocks. Therefore, the significance of his “Ghost Amusement Paintings” must be seen in context with his larger body of works.
Sun: It’s unique and personalized.
Xiao: Actually, the existence of “Ghost Amusement Paintings” expands our knowledge of Luo Pin, the artist. It adds to our conception of him. Why was he so focused on “Ghosts”? That is very interesting in and of itself.
Sun: A further point of our collaboration is that it will present an antiquated feeling of decadence to the audience. But this antiquated feeling should bring a fresh, and novel point of view—it should point to the future instead of the past. The language and symbols within the painting are the embodiment of ancient times, but they should deliver a forward-looking ethos. In addition, we each add our subjective thoughts into this creation. For instance, Hao Liang, you’ve painted the skeletons, but perhaps you could also give the audience a hint, some connection to my work in progress.
Hao: I don’t only focus on skeletons, but rather on their structure. Skeletons are so sophisticated, they support our flesh and inner organs, in a sense they are similar to architectural structures. Therefore, I think we can assemble skeletons, architecture, and other elements within a painting to form a complete and logical whole.
I have another point, traditional erotic paintings are ancient things to me, but I feel they can connect with modern society, with myself. One of my plans is to take the imagery of erotic painting as the background and having many objects floating on top, thus building an undefined and intimate relationship among the subjects. I intend to create a new vision through all these interconnecting elements.
Sun: Our current thought process is correct, and it is a new kind of collaboration, one that is more practical and one that differs from the past methods. To me, this erotic painting selected by Hao Liang serves as the foundation for my creation; it is just an old painting or photograph, something from many years ago. The final effect should be like a classical erotic painting still covered with dust.
Hao: Maybe what you focus on are the traces of history.
Sun: I think our goal is to express our different opinions using just one picture: you (Hao Liang) focus on the relationships in logic, but I still focus on human beings themselves. The picture is old and worn, it feels antique; nevertheless, its conception is ageless and points to today. Audiences can still identify with the undefined and intimate relationships in the painting.
Hao: I think that the graphic imagery of erotic painting isn’t important for us. In ancient times, this art served an educational function and was used a way for men to get sexually stimulated. Following feudal codes, ordinary people had no other channel to educate themselves about sex before they get married, so these pictures were a little like today’s sex education films. But for us, the core is the state of erotic art in its historical background. In today’s society, erotic art continues to exist, but the connotation is hugely different.
Xiao: For me, it is just a subject. I express my experience through this painting, and it’s hard to decide if it is about sexual experience or not.
Hao: I have a question for you, Xiao Xu. We all know video pornography exists, and its comparable to ancient erotic painting. We have seen the erotic art of Japan, India, China, Korea, Europe and America, but what do you think about the connection and differences between these countries’ and Japanese pornography?
Xiao: The most important connection between them is their educational function, their imitational nature.
Hao: And what about Japanese pornography?
Xiao: Pornography actually played a very important role in Japanese economic recovery during the 1970s and 1980s, and it might have solved some criminal problems. Indeed, pornography can actually contribute to society, so we shouldn’t be so prejudiced towards it.
Hao: I think the criminal problems you just mentioned is an interesting point. Why can’t erotic painting be related to solving criminal problems? You said the existence of Japan’s pornographic industry helped solve criminal activities, which suggests it has connections with crime.
Xiao: When speaking of pornography in general, I think Chinese pornography lacks uniqueness. The reason why pornography in China is not as prevalent as it is in Japan is that, it is actually tailored to differences in society and culture there.
Hao: Yeah, I agree with you. The erotic painting in ancient China was very beautiful. Sex in nature or enclosed settings were implicit, hidden behind the curtains or leaves. Japanese erotic painting, on the other hand, is sensational, sculptural and luscious but at the same time can have a perverse sensibility! This stems from cultural differences. If you see Indian erotic art, you will feel you are watching an educational film, the product of a religious country.
Xiao: Right. What I want to focus on is the different spiritual characteristics of Chinese people, not just the implicit beauty delivered through viewing the paintings—similar to Kunqu Opera, an oriental aesthetic.
Sun: Now the outline has taken shape. Hao Liang will pursue the work’s history and logic, his contribution to stress the inter-relationships and logical combinations within the composition. Xiao Xu is looking to explore mother culture, the aesthetic method and oriental taste, irrespective of cultural architecture; and I will focus on how to express my thoughts with an individualized painting method and language.
Hao: Okay, we’ve established an outline. Actually, “erotic painting” is a proposition, each of us has to paint in a way that we’re most familiar with. We explore our conception of “erotic painting” in three ways, which is just a starting point. Similar to our exhibition’s theme, our paintings are totally different between us, Sun Wen has a poetic and emotional style; Xiao Xu pays more attention to oriental symbols and taste; for me, I don’t care about oriental or western style, what matters is knowledge and understanding. Now basically everything is clear, there’s just one more question: do we all use the same erotic painting as our model?
Sun: I think the same one is okay. It is relatively straightforward and leaves more room to showcase each of our talents. In other words, with less distractive elements, we can concentrate on pure expression.
Hao: I think there is one perfect model for us, The Erotic Painting of the Ming Dynasty—I knew it at first sight. I think it sets a perfect tone. The relationships in the painting are very ambiguous; it’s about something that will happen or is happening.
Xiao: Well, the authorities in 798 should allow its display.
Hao: Ha-ha, the exhibition will not be censored.
Xiao: We are collaborating on a handscroll，but this model painting is of vertical composition.
Hao: That is just a model for our reference. I think our erotic painting can be divided into four sections, the first three will be our themed paintings, and will conclude with an original sketch.
Sun: I think we should arrange our works together and keep our sketch separate. Otherwise, the work will be inconsistent. After all, how would it be collected otherwise? I feel we should be able to remove the sketch if a collector doesn’t want it. Also, how could we add a sketch to the other paintings and keep its uniformity?
What do you think, how big should each one of our paintings be, what are the ideal dimensions of our handscroll? I think our paintings should be of the same dimensions, a rectangular composition to reinterpret the original erotic painting, followed by a separate sketch.
Sun: Just draw one sketch. For example, Xiao Xu draws a sketch on rough xuan paper and we will use it as a blueprint to add whatever we feel like.
Hao: Right. And we can add some small text annotations, and I think this would really add something, add some dimension to it.
Sun: So, what form will the whole hand scroll take?
Hao: I’m thinking about this question too. I think a traditional way of display will not suit our purposes.
Xiao: Can we take our work, frame it and hang it on the wall?
Hao: Um. I think framing it on the wall as such will look neat for the exhibition.
Hao: I also think we should use a very special title for this work.
Sun: The title is important. If it’s good, the audience will instantly know what we want to express.
Hao: We can give some hints to our three separate interpretations drawn from the same erotic painting—this is the core idea of our work.
Sun: (Laughing) How about “Spring’s Story”? Our exhibition will be held in spring.
Hao & Xiao: No, no, “Spring’s Story” may be too…
Hao: Or, “Spring” is unnecessary because our exhibition will take place in spring. I think “Three Tales in April” is perfect (name taken from The Decameron by Boccaccio)
Sun: “Three Tales in April”?
Hao: The stories of three days, so, “Three Tales in April.” It means one conception one day; one story, one day.
Sun: “April Tales” is better
Hao: The word “Tales” is not good.
Sun: We all want to be relevant to our theme, but we need more subtlety.
Xiao: Clarity is also important. How about “Spring In Three Days”? It means spring with only in three days.
Sun: I think it should be subtler and the words should be erotic, more ambiguous, with allegorical reference.
Hao: Actually it is unnecessary to be too obscure. “Spring In Three Days” is okay.
Xiao: “April Amusement”?
Hao: Not good. I think we can use a suggestive noun, like “Veiled Curtain,” a slightly erotic and ambiguous phrase.
Sun: Um, we’d better make the general idea clear first—simple, straightforward.
Hao: How about “Veiled Curtain in a Spring Abode”?
Xiao: I feel “Veiled Curtain” is one thing, and “Spring Abode” is another.
Hao: I have an idea—we can use the names of three things, that is, three words, six characters.
Sun: Three characters are okay too; one word means one thing.
Hao: That’s difficult.
Xiao: Six words are a little long.
Hao: How about a musical title？
Sun: Fine. The key is to use the proper song to fit for our theme.
Hao: How about “Niao Qing Si” (Floating Gossamers on a Fine Spring Day), the part sung by Du Liniang, from the kunqu opera “Peony Pavilion.”
Xiao: Actually we can keep the sounds of “Niao Qing Si,” and change the characters. “Spring Tryst” is good because it make the theme understandable for audiences. “Spring Tryst” was born in a cloudy cold afternoon, but it will be presented on a sunny spring day.
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【編輯：袁霆軒】
